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Perceptions of Homosexuality

Tue Aug 7, 2012, 10:42 AM


Gay and Lesbian rights is a an issue that galvanizes people, particularly on the internet, and as I writer of male/male fiction or a Yaoi fangirl, as you may prefer, I would like to weigh in with my views on the matter.

Naturally I do completely support Gay rights and all this entails. For example I believe that adoption and marriage are just as valid options for Gay and Lesbian couples and should be permitted and protected by law. I also feel that individuals of any marginal sexual orientation or gender identity should be free from prejudice, harassment, or unequal treatment at work or in public. So on and so forth.

I think that this is the most common stance for liberal-minded individuals and is probably the one expected of me, given my interests. My interests in male/male works however are not what guarantees or suggests my support for Gay rights.

I think most Yaoi fans do support gay rights but, although their tastes may influence this opinion, this is mainly because they are themselves liberal females or gay males. Young females usually do find the idea of homosexuality less upsetting than, for instance, straight males. If they are liberal and sexually open enough to read guy-on-guy manga and fiction then they are unlikely to be squeamish about sexual practices.

I think it's important to stress one key point though, one that many people neglect to mention, and that is that; Yaoi hasn't got a damn thing to do with gay rights.

If anything, the presentation of gay males in Yaoi and other male/male media often goes completely against the gay right movement. Not always mind, but often enough to take note of.

Yaoi and male/male fiction is written to excite and entertain. The relationships it presents are often violent, unequal, and highly sexual. They present homosexuality as a extreme sexual practice, something seductive yet intense. They even make links between abuse and homosexual relations, either through child abuse or rape, which is completely unacceptable as a literal interpretation. It is, in fact, something the Gay community has struggled against for a long time.

I've been pretty clear on my opinions on the content of Yaoi in the past, particularly in my mission statement. Some of the traits and themes I like, some I don't, but as fiction they are all perfectly valid. This genre is about fantasy and is usually targeted at young women who, sometimes, like violent and unequal relationships (the testosterone element is all part of the appeal).

The important thing to remember is why homosexuality is perceived as unnatural or wrong and, understanding the stereotypes and misconceptions, to distance personal taste or distaste from a sensible objective view.

The fact is that the issue doesn't come down to a choice along the lines of, 'should we let gay people live their lives without intrusion or should we stone them to death in the town square?' it's a complicated matter of social conventions and attitudes.

I think it's very helpful to consider why people are uncomfortable about homosexuality, in order to argue effectively and I'd like to go through some of those points now and counter them. These are all to do with 'perceptions' of homosexuality which effect many people whether they would actively vote against gay rights or not.

The most common argument against Homosexuality is that it is 'unnatural.' This argument is usually countered with arguments about homosexuality in nature etc. but I have always found this counter extremely irritating. The fact is that all kinds of acts are exhibited in nature, such as eating shit and killing your partner's babies from a previous relationship, but we know that these things do not apply to human society.

When people call homosexuality 'unnatural' what they mean is that they think it goes against an intrinsic human instinct. To most straight adults the thought of being sexual with a friend of the same sex is repugnant, wrong even. This is because it is a transgression of a platonic relationship, which is very important to us as human beings. This is one reason why many people who have a problem with the idea of homosexuality liken it to incest or pedophilia, because these  too are behaviors that involve transgressing upon what should be a platonic relationship. People who make this argument are trying to express what they feel such an act would be like and why it would feel and be wrong.

The main thing which needs to made clear when arguing on this point is that homosexuals, during to a genuine and intrinsic difference in their nature/brain, do not feel this way. For them their attitudes towards the genders are switched or, in the case of bisexuals, the boundaries more indistinct. If you listen to someone who is upset by the thought of homosexuality talk, for a time, it does become clear (although it seems strange to those of us who understand the orientation) that they really do not realize that homosexuals do like the same gender and that for them this feel natural and appropriate.

Some opponents grasp this somewhat but only halfway. They think it is a sexual deviancy whose stables are i) boundary crossing and ii) a mixture of desire and discomfort. There are other comparisons to sexual offenders made here. The facts of anecdotal and scientific research should make quite clear that homosexuality is a different in-born predisposition rather than a sexual dysfunction but this confusion is a key component of anti-gay thought.

If any readers are shaking their heads and thinking they are above this kind of confusion then they should take a moment to examine their own thoughts. This issue is very widespread, not just within wider society but even within gay rights activists and the gay community themselves.

If you think of homosexuality as, in any way, a sexually naughty and exciting choice, a more extreme type of experimentation and consider this to be an objective reality then you are perpetuating the myth that homosexuality is about sexual deviancy and boundary-crossing. Lady Gaga for instance, while supporting Gay rights, perpetuates the idea that homosexuality is extreme and exciting, like some kind of Bad Romance vampire love. There are also schisms within the gay community between members who, for example, hate drag acts because they are, after all, a caricature of what a gay man is - effeminate and highly sexualized.

I don't necessarily have a problem with this kind of entertainment but only under the condition that it is viewed purely as entertainment and a fictional representation. This is a critical distinction and if an artist implies that their work represents what is objectively real then they should be criticized accordingly.

Whether or not you agree with these criticisms I think it must be acknowledged that there is a lack of perception, in most of society, of gay people as simply normal people who are no more sexually active or provocative than anyone else. It has to be a conscience thing, whether you are excited or disgusted by it, to remember that a kiss between too males or two females is no different, and certainly no more sexually provocative, than a kiss between a man and a woman. Equality is not just about treating people the same, legally, it is about how we think about and perceive them.

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:iconjeanluz:
JeanLuz Featured By Owner Aug 12, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I'm currently in the process of getting my bachelors in psychology. ((I plan on becoming a therapist)). Homosexuality comes up every now and again in my class. Something interesting that was brought up is that most people don't realize that sexuality is a continuum with strait on one end and homosexual on the other. Not saying that either are right or wrong simply they are points on the continuum. The most interesting thing about this is that no person is on one end of the continuum or the other. Meaning no one is completely strait or completely gay. They have done surveys and have found that self reportedly strait men and women report not only sexual desires or fantasies of the same sex but actually intercourse or sexual acts with the same sex. But they still consider themselves strait. The same actually goes for those who report being homosexual. They also report having desires for the opposite sex or even have had intercourse with the opposite sex. This is always a good thing to point to when people try to just sort sexuality into categories or even claim that bisexuality is non-existent. The other thing I'd like to mention is that it's been proven that women are more sexually fluid then men. Meaning that in fact some lesbians are actually lesbians because of choice rather the being born that way. But that is a rather small percentage. Mostly this is a good way to explain why women tend to be more tolerant of homosexuality then men are.

Anyways thought this was worth sharing with you.
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Hi, thanks a lot. I have heard about these studies before but I have to admit I am not completely intimate with them. I am very interested in psychology myself and have studied it in the past but one of the difficulties within the field is proving a theory absolutely. I find that for some theories physical experiments provide results that are most convincing while in others anecdotal evidence is far more valuable.

I am always, regardless of the topic, incredibly suspicious of any survey-based study. There are a great number of variables which need to be considered when trying to evaluate the results; how big the sample size is, how they were collected/sourced, how the questions where phrased and delivered, under what circumstances where the subjects monitored and their surveys compiled etc. etc. I struggle to believe that ANY survey has really yielded reliable results but even when we have a reasonably reliable set of variables we cannot say the data proves any thing. Conclusions are what people draw from the data and this needs to be applied with reason.

I absolutely believe that people are capable of attraction and love with the gender to whom they do not usually associate attraction but I am not necessarily sure that is something that would affect what we call 'sexuality.' It depends on your definition on the word. Personally I believe that most people have a certain disposition towards one gender or the other, although bisexuality seems possible. This disposition dictates the partner for which attraction and affection will come most easily and be most enduring.

People form relationships all the time without a strong basis of love or attraction, they may even remain in those relationships for a long time, but if they were in a situation with a person to whom they were more intrinsically attracted they would have a much more 'real' relationship. This is something that isn't always about sexuality but it is about love and attraction to which sexuality is absolutely the most important factor.

This is simply what I reason though my own observations and imagination, I may be wrong and will amend my opinions based on evidence I consider reliable and convincing. This is not a simple issue and needs A LOT of conditions and amendments.
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:iconjeanluz:
JeanLuz Featured By Owner Aug 12, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Well the stuff I was talking about came from the Kinsey study but has been retested and confirmed. Psychology, like any other science, though can only say there is connections, correlations, and evidence of certain events in human behavior. Which is why any thing declared in psychology is still just theories since something new can come and change them. I was merely mentioning this right now as this is the current accepted information about certain aspects of sexuality. I didn't really disagree with anything you had to say I was just stating somethings that I felt should be mention to further broaden your assessments.

Anyways it was interesting reading what you had to say. I'm not exactly a yaoi fan at least I'm not into it because I find it exciting or something to that effect. Mostly I'm simply a writer and writing about male x male based love seemed something of an interesting challenge to me. I do support gay rights as well, felt that should be mentioned so no one gets the wrong idea. I joined this group in a way to see if I could effectively write in this genre as well as for my own interest. I've done a few studies for some classes on fandom so your opinion blog thing was actually something I was hoping to see more of, since I've been curious how those into the yaoi fandom felt toward things such gay rights and the sort. So to sum it all up, thank you for sharing your opinion.
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Thank you for sharing your thoughts too, I really appreciate it. I hope you didn't think I was being too defensive in my reply. I know that you were sharing information relevant to the topic and I welcome this. I stated my own opinions on the nature of sexuality just to explain my approach and address the concepts you were introducing. I may be wrong and I can only claim my own intuition and experience as evidence.

I hope you can find inspiration and succeed at writing a good male/male love story. You should find plenty of support here on Deviantart! If there's anything I can help you with just let me know. ;)
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:iconjeanluz:
JeanLuz Featured By Owner Aug 12, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thank you, and don't worry you didn't come off that way.
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:icondarkred-rose:
DarkRed-Rose Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I agree with you :)
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:iconargentum-lupae-luna:
Argentum-Lupae-Luna Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
As a bisexual myself, I agree that you made several excellent points. Not only did you point out the differences between homosexuality and heterosexuality clearly and fairly accurate, but you also included the ways that society perceives us and the ways that it is accurate or inaccurate. All in all, a commendable job, love.
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Thank you. x
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:iconargentum-lupae-luna:
Argentum-Lupae-Luna Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
You're welcome, love.
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:iconmeowmeowcat1:
Meowmeowcat1 Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Student Writer
This is great! I totally agree!
:nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod:
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:iconvampirelover5678:
Vampirelover5678 Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Wow very nice way to express this :clap:
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:iconl1ghttang3ll:
L1ghttAng3ll Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
:iconbwavoplz: great way to express this. I agree.
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Thank you. :)
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:iconcelestriakle:
Celestriakle Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
:iconclapplz:

That was beautiful. Don't ever stop being awsome.
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I shall try to maintain my awesomeness! Just you try and maintain yours!
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:iconcelestriakle:
Celestriakle Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Excellent news! I shall!
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:iconnerdyself99:
nerdyself99 Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012
marry me.
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Unfortunately I am already taken and cannot! Although I am sure we would have had a wonderful marriage and I support your right to marry anyone else of any gender you please!
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:iconnerdyself99:
nerdyself99 Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012
oh well, it was worth a shot
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:iconhidden-falls-girl:
Hidden-Falls-Girl Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
The title was a hook for me to start reading but looking at the entry with my full focus and reading the comments, I wanted to say my appreciation and say that I never really did think of these things before.

I've read yaoi and a bit of yuri before and acknowledge how the emotional parts of it and all that are exaggerated for entertainment purposes. those kind of relationships do seem fun but yeah, they're not the real deal.
I've also been watching this channel called LoGo, which is pretty much the LGBT channel if you don't know it. I don't particularly watch RuPaul that much or most of the shows. But some of the specials and movies (& i like watching 1 girl 5 gays. fun show) have given me at least some kind of entertaining way to give me a perspective on the LGBT community.

On a personal level *responding to the comments*, awesome elf is a little ahead of the game with me. I'm starting college in a couple weeks but i never thought of my sexuality on a serious note (concept vs. application) until roughly under 2 years ago (i'm 18). I was never that big of a yaoi fan until i started getting really into hetalia & the pairings and all that. And at that point guys have liked me and I've dated a couple guys before. I had my first girl crush in the middle of junior year. that started the best and worst year and a half of my life. The feelings were mutual and eventually grew into love. but at the same time, it took me over half of a year to break up with my boyfriend at the time. and, both of our parents were more than against the idea of us being together. Dad's convinced she was using me during... whatever we were. and mom's against homosexuality as a whole (even though she won't admit it). Whatever we were was really conflicted, and kinda scary since we had to worry about being found out... but i felt like it was more emotionally fulfilling than any relationship i had with a guy, and i wasn't uncomfortable with being physically (& to whatever extent sexually) attracted to her. The best and worst times of my life. the friends i told about this were generally supportive of us. but that was the most support we got other than being there for each other. We're currently on a friend-basis. we still have feelings for each other, though, 'not as strong'. And not trying again is better for us since we're going to different colleges and will inevitably meet different people and change. we're definitely better off now too, but there's still an ache. i've never had to deal with that for guys i've liked.

Why I bother mentioning all of this and making you endure my rambling: I have no true idea what my sexuality is. I've been classifying myself as Questioning. I haven't really been able to think about what i'm more attracted to except in abstract and while thinking of she-who-i-consider-my-first-love. As far as anime goes, i tend to crush on the girly-looking guys (according to my friends they look girly), or the masculine girls. it's kind of a weird pattern i noticed. I have bi and lesbian friends (& plenty of straight ones) & they've broadened my perspective on things too. Dad has told me lately that he doesn't care what my sexual orientation is later on as long as i'm being treated right. Mom thinks that being interested in homosexuality and wanting to defend gay rights is mainly because of said first love (ma doesn't think the feelings with us were ever real); and the fact that it's not how we are, and it's generally intriguing to me because it's not me.
I do admit that i do want a girlfriend. But i can't control what the heart decides to feel. with the relationships i've had so far, i've had more guy relationships, but they tended to be fleeting and i looked at other guys during the. but even though i never had a real relationship with Her, i didn't want to look at anyone else because i was just fine with adoring her. thats... why i'm stuck.
Going to college i know is going to be a huge help to figuring myself out. But i'm a little helpless as things stand right now.

sorry for troubling you with reading all this, but you seem like the kind of person that could help give a kind, honest word in regards to this. (considering what was said to the awesome elf and the topic you wrote about here.)
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Thanks for taking the time to give me a look at your experiences, I don't mind long comments, or personal ones, and its definitely no trouble. I don't know how much help I can be though because although I try to educate myself about human nature as much as possible I don't have all the answers. This is a difficult subject and only you can know yourself best. :)

I've never really experienced any confusion about my own sexuality so I find it a little difficult to imagine real uncertainty sometimes. I can imagine that if your strongest inclination is towards girls then there is reason why you should continually doubt this, heterosexuality being the default for society. I think that you should be able to tell if you reflect on your feelings though and try to push away anything which might cause you to doubt yourself.

I think the problem is that a same-sex relationship can be very intense and intimate, in a good or bad way, regardless of your natural disposition. It can be hard to pick apart why you liked your girlfriend so much and why that relationship was so important - the reasons may not all be related to her gender, after all she is a person.

I think there are low-level attractions, which can be fleeting and misinterpreted, and there are deep attractions which mature into serious bonds. Deep attractions are not necessarily characterized by simply being more 'intense' but are definitely more undeniable. The desire to touch someone and be close to them, physically, and not necessarily just sexually, is part of a deeper desire. If you found yourself feeling pumped at the idea of touching their arm or leaning close to them or pressing your forehead to theirs then that would be a deep attraction.

Finding something...exciting because of the situation, psychologically, is more of an illusion I think. For instance when you're young and you are excited because you have a 'boyfriend'. You are excited at the thought of being in a romantic situation, not because of who you're boyfriend is. I think a lot of gay people think they are straight, when young, because of these feelings.

There are other ways in which you can analyze your sexuality, when not in a relationship, but you have to be prepared to put your romantic and sexual fantasies under a microscope. It's a bit of a daunting thing but you may have to do it sometime!

I wish I could help you more and I'm so sorry that your relationship with your first love was so difficult and confusing. I hope you can work things out in your head and build some new relationships when you go to college, it really is the best time of your life for that sort of thing! ;)
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:iconhidden-falls-girl:
Hidden-Falls-Girl Featured By Owner Aug 10, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
I swear i've read this a few times over and don't totally know if i'll be able to fully grasp it for a while. I understood what was said but i guess it won't fully make sense until i move ahead in the not-so-distant future.
Thank you for your input, it actually was very helpful. and it did let some things that were bugging me make sense. and its good hearing from a third party voice.
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Well I can't know everything about your situation or how you feel, as I said, I hope that my ideas regarding relationships and sexuality may be useful to you or, I'm glad you think they've helped a little.
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:iconhidden-falls-girl:
Hidden-Falls-Girl Featured By Owner Aug 12, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
it was very helpful. :hug:
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:iconakibara13:
akibara13 Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012
Very nicely put! :) I'm always glad to see people articulate their views in a well thought out manner. You brought up some really nice points. :) As a gay man and a 'yaoi' fiction and fanfiction author, I really appreciated a lot of the points you brought up. Very cool! :hug:
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Thanks, I wanted to make a point about the presentation of gay characters in male/male stuff but I didn't want to offend any fans in the process, after all, I love Yaoi too. :)
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:iconakibara13:
akibara13 Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012
Yeah, and you did a real nice job. I have to admit even my writing tends to have some of those elements that you talked about but I try my best to have a more legitimate reason for them and to make the situation and characters more true to life. Part of the problem I think, is not only is yaoi aimed at young women, but the American fans tend to stick to how they see the yaoi portrayed in manga and anime which is a difference in cultural norms. Not to mention just the straight up fact that anything that delves into erotica, even the really tame stuff, is unrealistic whether it be hentai or yaoi. :XD: I can totally understand not wanting to offend any yaoi fans because some of them can be rather....rabid and not very understanding. I thought you did a great job. :D
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:iconawesomenessbringdr:
awesomenessbringdr Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012
EPICNESS
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Ha ha, thank you!
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:iconawesomenessbringdr:
awesomenessbringdr Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012
Seriously tho, as a gay/trans person, this is exactly my feelings XD
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I'm really glad of that, I try hard to consider things carefully when putting out opinion pieces. I'm a straight female myself so I've never needed to face anti-gay feeling directly but I am a gay rights supporter and try to understand the issues in the community. X3
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:iconawesomenessbringdr:
awesomenessbringdr Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012
indeed XD
I can tell you all about it if you want XD
I have been bi, pan, gay, trans, even lesbian XD
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:iconsilverdream729:
Silverdream729 Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Right on! You definitely made a powerful point. I would have to say that when I read yaoi and such, violence and all those what i call extreme sides to the yaoi community isn't my cup of tea so to speak. But, to each his own I always say. Of course, people don't see the same way I do and that's to be expected. We, as human beings are entitled to our own opinions but the one thing we tend to lack in any opinion is respect and understanding of the opposing side's opinion.
That's just something we have to work on I suppose. Anyway, do you mind if I submit this to other groups?
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I'd love it if you submitted to other groups. I've been submitting this to a few myself. When I have the time I tend to do the rounds with my writing and I'd appreciated being recommended too! Thanks very much for taking the time to read and comment. xx
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:iconsilverdream729:
Silverdream729 Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Okay :D And you're welcome :D
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:icondotti55:
dotti55 Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012
Oh and my feelings on yaoi? I don't follow yaoi for yaoi's sake, mostly because I dislike most of the most popular situations, be they shoda, or non-com sexual situations. I write my own for LxLight, and they have a normal relationship as any couple would, simply different because they're both guys. So, although I obviously have no problem with homosexuality or yaoi, it has to be a situation that isn't overly crazy.
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Ha ha, I'm afraid I couldn't describe L and Light's relationship as 'normal' exactly since they both have, at least at one point, wanted the other dead and are bound together by bonds of obsession and well...bonds! ;D

Sorry I've left most of my LxLight stories on hiatus btw, I really hope you don't mind my working on mainly original fiction. It's not that I don't still love the pairing. x
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:icondotti55:
dotti55 Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012
Well, it started out a little crazy but now it's pretty normal, all that is in the past..at least in my universe.

Yea, I noticed you did, and while it really disappointed me I can completely understand wanting to do something different. I have noticed that most people around here who are really obsessed by things tend to grow out of it after a couple of years. That was one of the reasons why I stopped reading others' work and started writing my own; I'm too old to grow out of anything!! LOL.
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Oh I've not grown-out of it as such (I'm never gonna grow up!) but I'm just pursuing other things at the moment. I hope to maybe go back to my LxLight stories at some point and finish up the stuff that's on hold.
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:icondotti55:
dotti55 Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012
that would make me (and probably the rest of your readers) incredibly happy. Good to know you haven't grown out of it, so many people I used to deal with have finished college or whatever and have just disappeared, which of course is absolutely normal, you move on as your life does. I just find myself a little lonely at times when those that I used to have great conversations with are no longer around.

Huggles!!
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Huggles!!!
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:icondotti55:
dotti55 Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012
Brilliantly written ErmengardeSecret, brilliant. It frightens me how frighteningly narrowminded and scary people can be about this. As if allowing people who love differently than you do to exist will somehow ruin your life. I simply don't get it.

AwesomeElf, I totally understand what you're saying, and the problem you have is twofold. You're of an age where sexuality period can be confusing, and now you've surrounded yourself with a particular type of homosexuality, which for the most part is completely fictional without actually knowing what the real world of homosexuality is like and nothing to compare it to. You are right, you must realize that a normal homosexual relationship is like a regular one, the only difference is they are of the same sex. Feeling slightly enticed by the idea of being with a man does not mean you have warped yourself by reading Yaoi. It merely means you have an interest in the possibility, and there's nothing wrong with that, babe. As long as you realize that the relationship would be the same as if he were a girl, and not necessarily the "excitement" you have read about in yaoi, any more than a regular relationship will be like 50 Shades of Grey. It's fiction, they're all fiction, and although there may be some truth in them (you do find your kinky folks out there) for the most part, it's gonna be your usual day to day relationship, no matter who you're with.

Hugs, and I hope this helps you in some way.
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Thanks very much for taking the time to comment, dotti, I really appreciate your following me for all this time and giving me your thoughts! Don't ever stop being the awesome person you are! XD

I gave some reasons why people find homosexuality uncomfortable but there are other reasons further. The idea that homosexuality is 'unnatural' boundary crossing naturally means that some people also genuinely believe it to be harmful. While this would not be of immediate concern to them, in terms of particular individuals, they often worry about the 'societal effect,' possibly also about their own children.

Religious belief is also another issue, not only because it strengthens the view that homosexuality is an unnatural perversion, but adds the concept that it is against god's law and causes damnation. Strong religious belief also gives the individual an impression that there is a way the world is 'supposed to be' and it is their duty to achieve and maintain that. This may be a strong factor in their campaign against gay rights.

I obviously find any anti-gay activists very upsetting but as I do not believe in simplifying into 'good' or 'evil' I have to see them as people who are mistaken, with great issues that need to be understood and argued against. Hopefully many people, especially those who are mid or low level in their anti-gay beliefs, can be persuaded if we can understand their concerns and combat them.
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:icondotti55:
dotti55 Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2012
Anyone who finds homosexuality harmful are doing it out of ignorance and I feel badly for them. Their big problem is that it's anal sex, and that's just a laugh because most of the "normal" men I know are always begging their girls and wives for it , so obviously it's not such a terrible thing. And what kind of "societal" effect can that possibly have on their children? It's not going to bother anyone anymore than the fact that some people like heavy metal affects those who like rhythm and blues.

The religion issue is the most difficult and is the hardest to deal with. The actual scriptures never call it an abomination, and Jesus never said anything like that. Written at a time when it was most important to repopulate the world, and bring more believers in, of course it was going to be against any kind of union that was not going to bring more kids into the world. Also, the idea of marriage being such a wonderful thing...considering at the time it was done only as a matter of owning someone and their lands more than anything else, I don't see how it's so "special". And the fact that most heterosexual marriages end in divorce, we watch on television how people like Kardashians make a mockery out of it, that to me is much worse than having people of the same sex marry when they obviously want it so badly.

And no, I don't find "anti-gay"activists as evil either, everyone is entitled to their beliefs and opinions. it is when they use their opinions to stop me or anyone else from living my own life, for reasons to perpetrate violence to stop people from having their right to work, a place to live and someone to love, which has no bearing on them whatsoever, that they make me crazy.

And thank you, you are a pretty awesome person yourself.
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:iconlukesaturn:
LukeSaturn Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
It's hard for me to grasp homosexuality to be honest. Not in that I don't support it or understand it, but in terms of my own sexuality. I'm a teenage male, and I like yaoi and the sort of things you write, but I'm definitely not homosexual. I've been toying with the notion of being bisexual, but I really can't know until I get older. Because I enjoy yaoi, I do think my perception of the gay community has become a bit off....I think of being gay as "exciting" like you described, but that is the culture in which I've been raised obviously. I know that it is just like having a normal relationship to homosexual individuals....but I feel if I were to try it, I'd get some weird pleasure out of it. I understand it completely, while not understanding how it would be for me personally. I know that for two gay men, the relationship is like what I might feel for a woman, and vice versa. I'm not attracted to men on a daily basis (unless they resemble some sort of typical anime/yaoi feature) yet the thought of being with a man, is oddly enticing. This is why I've realized that yaoi has definitely warped my vision of how the relationship would go if I were to be bisexual or gay. Do you get what I'm saying...I can't really describe it well -_-
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Thanks for sharing this with me, I'm really glad you took the time to. I think that what you are describing would be considered 'bi-curious' which tends to remain more about fantasy than actually pursuing a same-sex encounter, although sometimes it does progress. Girls often profess to be somewhat bi-curious but this doesn't mean they should be redefined from being 'straight.'

I can't know exactly what you feel or what appeals to you about male/male stuff but is possible that you enjoy it without really wanting to pursue a gay relationship. Although fantasies can help us work out a lot about ourselves it is best to take experiences from real life as a baseline. Our sexualities really reveal themselves in who we find attractive as people, not as concepts.

If you wanted to experiment with another boy, at some point in the future, then you should be able to do so. It might not give you the excitement and satisfaction that your fantasies do though, you might find it disappointing. As I said though, I can't know exactly what you feel, please do not be offended by my speculations.

I don't think these kind of feelings are in any way warped as you understand the reality of homosexuality and homosexual relationships. The key is to always reflect upon your feelings, so you can know yourself better, but not to worry too much about these things. You will have plenty of time to find out what you want out of your relationships and your sex life. ;) xxx
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:iconlukesaturn:
LukeSaturn Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah I know that's what I am....and I actually would like to try a same sex relationship as a sort of experiment, but I can't. That's another reason I'm aggravatingly confused, because there is no way for me to confirm or deny it. The reason I can't is because my parents are totally anti-gay, one of my friends says she'll kick my ass if I ever date another dude, and where I live just basically looks down on it altogether.

Mostly what appeals to me is the...well, it's hard to even tell...for me it is obviously the romance, because in these sorts of works, it seems even more romantic than a straight romance because it is almost like they are rebelling in a way. The other appealing thing is the psychology of it. I like the personalities and how each character reacts, because there is usually one character that is all for it, while the other is often confused or apprehensive. Like in your story, "The Boys in the Water" (which is amazing btw). Your right too, it only comes down to who I'm attracted to.

Haha yeah, trust me, I've only had one girlfriend, and am for all intensive purposes just going to be Asexual for a while, because it's just not something I feel is worth pursuing at my age (15) so I won't be "experimenting" any time soon XD...but I agree, I kinda think I might be disappointed or won't continue to pursue anything else once I can tell for sure y'know?

and thank you...I'm glad I haven't been warped by yaoi XP I didn't exactly think I was, I just can't really put into words what I mean so forget it.
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:iconermengardesecret:
ErmengardeSecret Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I think you've expressed yourself quite well so don't worry about that. These things tend to be quite hard to put to words, after all.

It's unfortunate that you live in such a conventional, closed-minded community. You shouldn't worry about what your friends say though, that's for sure, it's difficult to defy your parents but your friends should support you, not put you down. I know that you may have to make a lot of compromises right now, I can't tell you not to do that, it's not my business when things are difficult for you, but there will be time later to pursue your own path - as you seem to intend to.

I hope you can overcome your frustration somehow. Remember that your identity doesn't depend entirely on your sexual and romantic inclinations, you have so much time to work everything out. Most people don't don't have real relationships until their twenties anyway, myself included, no matter what they may imply. xx
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:iconlukesaturn:
LukeSaturn Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Haha yeah you get it.

Yeah, it can be a bit of a bummer, but overall I don't really care. I'll just wait until I move away or can be on my own, plus I think it's kinda funny when all the uptight people try and rationalize gay people...It's quite amusing...and my two best friends probably wouldn't care much, but the friend I was talking about means alot to me and it's kinda complicated because she has gay friends and loves them and all, but for some reason she won't tell me why it is so important for me not to be gay...so she is kinda baiting me along -_- which is annoying, but I wouldn't let her affect my decisions anyway. I'm not really compromising too much, I just don't say certain things in conversations but that's really it...It's not like I have a lot to keep secret.

I know, I'm not going to let it affect my identity...It's just been bugging me lately....y'know, with all the news and talk about gays and lesbians and all the different opinions...I just wish we could all speak out mind XD

Thanks for listening to me blab.
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